Theologian Prof John Milbank and I exchange blows on God here. http://iainews.iai.tv/…/law-vs-milbank-belief-and-the-gods-…
We do not hold our punches.
Parts 3 and 4 will be up shortly but if you can't wait here is my response to Milbank's reply now (ie part 3):
Continues here.
We do not hold our punches.
Parts 3 and 4 will be up shortly but if you can't wait here is my response to Milbank's reply now (ie part 3):
Thanks to John Milbank for responding to my opening piece on
God and science. I initially suggested many God beliefs are empirically - and
even scientifically - refutable in the sense that we might establish beyond
reasonable doubt, on the basis of observation, that the belief is false. I gave
three examples: belief there's a God that answers petitionary prayer; belief
that there's a God who created the world 6,000 years ago; and belief there's a
God that's omnipotent and omni-malevolent.
I then suggested that, for similar reasons, we can reasonably rule out a god
that's omnipotent and omni-benevolent.
John rejects that last suggestion and defends the view that
his particular omnipotent, omni-benevolent
God is indeed off-limits to any sort of empirical or scientific refutation. So
what is his counter-argument?
Continues here.
Comments
In response to this argument, it may be worth pointing out that the Bible does NOT say God (i.e., the Most High) created Adam and Eve. This may come as a shock to many, but it is just another example of Christians reading the Bible through the lens of tradition.
There are TWO creation accounts in Genesis, beginning at 1:1 and 2:4 -
http://biblehub.com/genesis/1.htm
http://biblehub.com/genesis/2.htm
In the first account, it states that God created 'humankind' (no mention of Adam and Eve). So why do most people assume these were Adam and Eve? Because a) the SECOND account mentioned Adam and Eve, b) tradition and c) The Hebrew word for 'humankind' is 'adam' (Strong's Hebrew 120). In the first account, the word translated 'God' is 'elohim' (the Hebrew generic word for 'god' or 'gods').
In the second account, the popular translations state that "Lord God formed A MAN [Adam] from the dust of the ground [later followed by Eve]" (Genesis 2:7). The phrase translated 'Lord God' is 'Yahweh Elohim'; literally 'the god Yahweh', where 'Yahweh' is simply a proper name. It was Jewish tradition to write 'Lord' instead of 'Yahweh' to avoid profaning the 'sacred name', and most translators followed suit.
Notice the contrast between the two accounts. In the first account God (elohim) created 'ex nihilo', by His Word alone. He simply said "Let there be ..." and it was. In the second account, 'Lord God' (Yahweh Elohim, 'the god Yahweh') had to 'form' Adam (and the animals) from something else, 'the dust of the ground'. Clearly, the second account describes an inferior mode of 'creation'. Do the two accounts refer to the same God, and the same creation? If so, why does the name, and mode of creation, differ between the two? By the way, there's no mention of how much time elapsed between the two accounts (so much for Young Earth creationism, which starts the clock at Adam).
https://youtu.be/CVEsA6gYy9s
https://youtu.be/QAtFqHEcGs0
https://youtu.be/eQedPYerKXg
This scenario of usurpation is attested to by scholars such as Christine Hayes, Professor of Religious Studies at Yale; although she interprets it as the Canaanites abandoning their pre-Exodus pantheon of gods (which included a god named El), in favor of the monotheistic worship of Yahweh:
https://youtu.be/2plwd27OvQ8?t=31m14s
However, Prof Hayes fails to mention that although El was the name of the chief Canaanite god, it evolved into a generic Hebrew term for 'god' (The plural for 'el' is 'elohim', demonstrating that in the Hebrew Bible, 'el' is a generic term and no longer a name). The difference between El and 'el' is analogous to the difference between Adam (a proper name) and 'adam' (the Hebrew word for 'humankind'). So an alternative interpretation is that the Israelites were not abandoning the Canaanite god El in favor of Yahweh, but rather were abandoning el elyon (the 'most high god', a title rather than a name) in favor of a lesser being called Yahweh.
This apparent 'war' between El and Yahweh runs through the entire Bible, including the New Testament (the New Testament authors knew nothing about pre-Exodus Canaanite religion). For example, In Hebrews 6:20 in the New Testament, Jesus is declared "a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek." Melchizedek was the last High Priest who served El Elyon:
Genesis 14:18 "And Melchizedek, King of Salem, brought out bread and wine, and he was a priest of El Elyon (God Most High)."
After Melchizedek, Yahweh appointed Aaron and his descendants as High Priests to serve him, but Jesus was not a descendant of Aaron. Rabbinical sources (these aren't Christians!) claim that Melchizedek was actually Seth (third son of Adam). Jesus is a descendant of Seth (obviously, on his mother's side). So Jesus continues as High Priest of El Elyon "forever" on behalf of Israel, having paid the ransom to free them from their covenant with Yahweh.
In the 'two creations' model, there are potentially three kinds of 'people' on Earth. The first sort are the pre-Adamites created by Elohim in Genesis 1. Pre-Adamites do not sin or die (because both sin and death are imperfections, and Elohim NEVER creates anything imperfect). Since they never sin, pre-Adamites don't need to be saved. Because they don't die, we never find pre-Adamite fossils. ALL FOSSILS are of Yahweh's creatures that died (Genesis 2 was not necessarily his first go at 'creation'). The history of 'evolution', with its dead ends and monstrosities, records Yahweh's failed attempts to create beings to match Elohim's.
The second group of 'people' are the Adamites, who are the pure-bred descendants of Adam and Eve. Adamites both sin and die, because they were created by Yahweh and everything he makes goes wrong, falls apart and turns to ... dust (to put it politely). These are the 'tares' of Matthew 13:24-30, 37-43:
"[Jesus] answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed [the pre-Adamites] is the Son of Man [Jesus-Elohim]. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares [the Adamites] are the sons of the wicked one [You-Know-Who]. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age." (Matthew 13:37-40)
Obviously, Jesus didn't die for the Adamites, primarily because they were not created "in God's image" ("b'tzelem Elohim" in Hebrew, "in the image of Elohim", Genesis 1:26). They were created by and for Yahweh. They belong to him, and will follow him to his ultimate end.
The third category is probably the largest. These are the Hybrids, of Adamites and pre-Adamites. As one would expect, the descendants of Adam soon married outside the fold, thereby corrupting the pre-Adamite race. When Hybrids 'die', only their physical bodies (created by Jahweh) die. The Hybrids continue to live in spiritual bodies:
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead [Hybrids]. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a SPIRITUAL body." 1 Corinthians 15: 42-44
There's just one problem. Elohim is perfectly just, and justice demands that since the Hybrids have sinned, they should pay the penalty, which turns out to be death (Ezekiel 18:4, Romans 6:23). But Hybrids can't die (shedding their 'natural' bodies doesn't count). So in order to meet His own standard of justice, Jesus Himself becomes a Hybrid and dies on their behalf. He lay (totally) dead for three days, thereby fulfilling the penalty.
"Since the children [Hybrids] have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his DEATH he might break the power of him who holds the power of death — that is, the devil — and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make ATONEMENT for the sins of the people." [Hebrews 2: 14-17]
'Pre-Adamites'= 'Elohim's hominids'
'Adamites' = 'Yahweh's hominids' (pre or post-Adam)
'Hybrids' = 'Hybrids'
https://youtu.be/-jf5goxK41A
'Elohim' is a collective term for the 'divine council' of beings that, according to the Bible, constitute the Godhead (Psalm 82:1, 82:6, Job 1:6, 2:1):
"God [elohim] has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods [elohim] he holds judgment ..." [Psalm 82:1]
"I [elohim] said, “You are gods [elohim], sons of the Most High, all of you ..." [Psalm 82:6]
This divine council is the 'us' of Genesis 1:26:
"Then God [elohim] said, “Let US make mankind in OUR image, in OUR likeness ... [Genesis 1:26]
Yahweh was a member of the divine council, until he decided to conspire with some other members to rebel against the Most High (Isaiah 14:12-15, Psalm 82:1-8, Revelation 12:9):
"How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, “I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly [the place of the divine council], on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon [the name of that place]. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.” (Isaiah 14:12-14)
"God [elohim] has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods [elohim] he holds judgment: "How long will you [plural] judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? ..." (Psalm 82:1-2)
"And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world - he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him." (Revelation 12:9)
Some may argue that if God is morally perfect, and God is the divine council, then how could a member of the council be evil? This objection illustrates the Fallacy of Composition, that a property of a whole necessarily also applies to its parts. The fact that the divine council is perfectly good when it acts collectively (as 'God' with a capital 'G') does not entail that all of its members are good when acting individually (as 'gods' with a small 'g').
[continued below]
Since Yahweh is a 'god', he is immortal and cannot be destroyed. As a 'god', he presumably enjoys some freedom of action, such that he cannot be physically restrained. Furthermore, the divine council is restricted by its own moral goodness; it cannot do harm. Hence Jesus's instruction to his disciples in Matthew 5:38-42, that they "resist not evil [with violence]" and "turn the other cheek" (as Jesus Himself did). The only exception to the 'do no harm' injunction is possibly the Principle of Double Effect, where there is a FORCED choice between a greater and a lesser evil, and action is taken in favor of the lesser evil.
As a result of the divine council's own moral code, and Yahweh's divine attributes, the council's actions against Yahweh's evildoing are limited to mitigating harm without causing equal or greater harm. The only other thing the council can do is wait for Yahweh's handiwork to collapse under the weight of its own flaws, by which he ends up in a Hell of his own making (which he refuses to leave, out of pride). The Bible makes it clear in Matthew 25:41 that Hell is "for the Devil and his angels". The only other inmates are 'the Beast' and 'the False Prophet' of Revelation 20:10, both of whom are Yahweh incarnate. The only others who enter Hell are all the Adamites, but being physical and not spiritual creatures, they are utterly destroyed in the process. For the references on Hell as (largely) annihilation, see https://youtu.be/oHUPpmbTOV4.
To sum up, once we've grasped the collective nature of the divine assembly, and understood the Fallacy of Composition, then we can comprehend how it is possible for a part of the assembly to be evil when acting alone, yet for the assembly as a whole to be perfectly good (for example, Apple can be a good company despite having some bad employees). The same Principle applies to the assembly's Creation, which is wholly good, despite containing evils committed by individual members of that assembly.
Clearly, there is a lesson to be drawn from all this, pertaining to "the knowledge of good and evil" mentioned in Genesis 2. The Hybrids are destined to be "co-heirs with Christ," which suggests that they will become members of the divine council, given that Jesus is now "at the right hand of God" (Acts 7:55, Romans 8:34, Ephesians 1:20, Colossians 3:3, Hebrews 1:3, and several other verses). The most valuable lesson for any newcomer to the divine council is "Do not EVER EVER try to do this 'god' thing without us. You'll screw it up REALLY bad."
This 'dream scenario' may be found in some strands of Buddhist and Hindu thought, where each incarnation is a dream in an infinite series, until the dreamer 'wakes up' once and for all, by realizing the true nature of reality. Along these lines, some may argue that the problem of evil is, paradoxically, its own solution. As we meditate on the problem, and eliminate unsatisfactory proposed solutions, we finally arrive at the conclusion that a good God cannot co-exist with evil.
At this juncture, there are only two options. Either evil exists and God doesn't, or vice-versa. Those who choose the latter option believe they are 'lucid dreamers' (people who know they are dreaming, while dreaming) believing that they will wake up one day to the ideal life they were living all along. This raises an interesting question. Do 'lucid dreamers' have a different attitude to this world, and in particular to evil and suffering? This theme runs through the movie 'Matrix', where the hero is empowered by his knowledge that he lives in a Matrix, and is eventually able to use that knowledge to affect the Matrix itself (in the same way that some lucid dreamers claim to self-consciously shape their dreams).
There's another interesting question: why do we assume that events in dreams never happened, and is this belief universal across all cultures/eras? It would be interesting to study the 'language game' of dreams and work out why experiences between falling asleep and waking up are so readily dismissed as 'not real'. Why would we jump so confidently to that conclusion, when the nature of 'reality' is supposedly mysterious and puzzling (at least to philosophers and even scientists)?
Since dreams and waking life are indistinguishable by experiential quality alone, the difference seems to lie in the fact that dreams are discontinuities in a consistent waking experience. So the 'reality' of an experience has less to do with experiential quality, and more with how the experience fits (or doesn't fit, in this case) into the larger 'background' narrative? If so, what makes us so sure we're not dreaming now?
https://youtu.be/0kqQNBR09Rc
Here's a review by the late great Roger Ebert. He gave it a rare 3.5 stars (out of 4).
http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-game-1997
You can click the 'watch now' link in the review to buy the movie in your preferred format.
https://youtu.be/0kqQNBR09Rc?t=21s
On a hunch, I looked up October 12 in the Jewish Calendar. It's Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement) 2016. BTW, the date changes every year.
https://www.google.com.sg/search?q=yom+kippur+2016
Ordinarily, that would just be a quirky coincidence. However, about a week ago, I dreamed that a voice said to me, "I'll pick you up on 11th of June." I've never had a 'prophetic dream' before (if that was one). I looked that up in the Jewish calendar (I have a habit of doing that when a date 'feels' significant). It's Shavuot (Pentecost) 2016, when the firstfruit of the wheat harvest is gathered up and offered to God (Exodus 34:22).
Matthew 13:30 "Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but GATHER THE WHEAT INTO MY BARN."
Matthew 13:37 "He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one."
There's a possibility that there will be two Raptures or 'snatching away' of the saved in the End Times. The first would be the 'firstfruits' mentioned in Revelation 14:4, followed by the rest of the saved in Rev 14:15-16 after the Tribulation (you don't want to go through the Tribulation), followed finally by the Wrath of God in Rev 14:17-19 (note the chronology of events in that chapter):
http://biblehub.com/bsb/revelation/14.htm
In Rev 14:17-19 The Wrath of God is identified with the grape harvest, which takes place in the period of approx two months between Tu B'Av and Yom Kippur.
To cut a long story short, this could be it, folks; last call for the Jesus train.
Acts 4:12 "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved."
https://youtu.be/msC8HkU3dpI?t=38s
NB: I did study the Jewish feast days about a year ago, so it's possible that my subconscious picked up the date of Shavuot for 2016 (although I hadn't paid much attention to Shavuot in my study, because most commentators believe the feast's prophetic role was entirely fulfilled at Pentecost in Acts 2). However, it's extremely unlikely that I remembered Van Orton's birthday was October 12, because the only time I watched that movie was about 10 years ago. Is it worth betting that I'm wrong?
https://www.google.com.sg/search?q=shavuot+2016
This 1-minute video gives a very brief account of the Feasts and their prophetic significance. I disagree with its claim that the Feast of Trumpets marks the exact date of the main Rapture, because Jesus said he would return at a time we do not expect (http://biblehub.com/luke/12-40.htm). However, I don't know if the 'unexpected timing' condition applies to any earlier rapture of the Firstfruits as described in my previous comment.
https://youtu.be/CCEBnyIMlgc?t=24s
That puts a question mark on whether any suffering actually occurred, and whether we might harbor subconscious motives for constructing our memories in a certain, negative, way. We know that our memories are at least partly constructed:
https://youtu.be/72dhjGWB0gg
An evolutionary cognitive scientist might propose that negative memories aid evolutionary fitness, since a creature with positive memories is less likely to be motivated to seek greener pastures. Hence, our brains may have evolved to construct negative memories and erase positive ones. A theologian might argue that constructing false negative memories gives us an excuse to not believe in the existence of a good God.
I've always been intrigued by the experience of this neuroscientist, who had a stroke in which part of her brain shut down:
https://youtu.be/UyyjU8fzEYU?t=1m50s
The other thing was what she described as a feeling of gratitude, to no one in particular. The hilarious part was I kept watching this cheesy Swedish YouTube music video over and over again (couldn't understand a word, but the tone and atmosphere seemed to resonate with how I felt at the time!):
https://youtu.be/TTsPD6ljLPY
https://youtu.be/NfPLTtlo2oY
The philosophical issue is, which half of the brain produces the more veridical experience? The left half, which is focused on the immediate experience of 'the now', or the right half, which constructs memories based on priorities we know very little about? Some may say 'both', but that answer would have to account for memories that are both constructed and partly confabulatory. One could, of course, define 'veridical' in terms of the coherence theory of truth (thus allowing for some 'construction'). But that is somewhat shaky ground, because where do you draw the line between construction and confabulation?
http://vigilantcitizen.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=2795
http://forums.swordsearcher.com/threads/3000-died-3000-saved-amazing-grace.1009/
For example, the knowledge of dishonesty may be part of a corporation because some of its employees are dishonest, but the corporation itself is not dishonest (if, by virtue of institutionalized checks, it does not allow the dishonesty of its employees to taint the final product). In a similar way, the Divine Council is able to redirect the evil intentions of its bad members to serve an ultimately good purpose ("all's well that ends well", as they say). Our judgement that evil outcomes exist are based on contingent observations that are subject to revision in the light of further evidence, however compelling the current evidence may appear (having said that, the existence of evil intentions is undeniable, one merely has to search one's own conscience).
This is where many Satanists have gone wrong, because they believe that 'God' refers to an individual person. On that basis, they assume that the Problem of Evil and the Problem of Omniscience are irreconcilable with the existence of a good God, and therefore God must somehow be both 'good' and 'evil', where both are of equal status (this was essentially the logic of Nietzsche's aptly titled 'Beyond Good and Evil'). This is the god that the Satanists worship; who is, of course, evil (though he sometimes uses a simulacrum of 'goodness' to further his evil ends).
The Divine Council solution is particularly relevant to Theistic Idealism, which proposes that the universe is essentially God thinking. On the standard view, because the universe undeniably contains evil intentions (at the very least, mine), theistic Idealism runs straight into the Problem of Omniscience. By describing the Godhead as something like a corporate body rather than an individual, the Divine Council theory offers a way around the Problem via the Fallacy of Composition. For scientific arguments for and against Idealism, see:
For: https://youtu.be/4C5pq7W5yRM
Against: https://youtu.be/dvf_dXDfTGs
For the biblical evidence for the Divine Council paradigm, see:
https://youtu.be/5-O5QfT6N1s (highly recommended, more about and by Dr. Heiser on his website http://drmsh.com/)
Of course, I disagree with Dr. Heiser about the supremacy of Yahweh, for a whole bunch of biblical reasons (see my comments above for some). I believe the Supreme Being is the Father of Jesus, and there are reasons to think that Jesus's Father is the Divine Council itself, acting as a corporate person (of which Yahweh was a mere member, and not a good one). Traditionally, the Heavenly Father is assumed to be the Head of the Council. This is not a problem as long as it is understood that the Head of the Council acts through a corporate body made up of beings with free will (as explained in the video above), in something like the way the Pope acts 'ex cathedra' through the institution of 'the Papacy' (unlike the Pope, however, God does not have a separate life as an ordinary bloke. As such, the Council is integral to who God is).
God presides in the great assembly [the Divine Council];
he renders judgment among the 'gods':
2 “How long will you [plural] defend the unjust
and show partiality to the wicked?
3 Defend the weak and the fatherless;
uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
5 “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6 “I said, ‘You are 'gods';
you are all sons of the Most High.
7 But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler.”
8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance.
Verse 8 supports Heiser's view that the Most High will eventually take back the nations from the 'sons of God', who will be destroyed. But note that in the original Hebrew, 'God' is 'Elohim', not 'Yahweh'. It is 'Elohim' that will take back the nations. The same 'Elohim' that created the Earth in Genesis 1:1 will take it back from the wayward 'gods' of Psalm 82. Yahweh is not named in this passage, though based on Deut 32:8-9, he may well be one of those 'gods' who is to be destroyed.
The bottom line is, if Yahweh is 'the Most High', why does the Bible not use 'Yahweh' exclusively when referring to God? Why does it make a distinction between 'Elohim' (meaning 'God', 'god' or 'gods', depending on context), 'Elyon' (the 'Most High') and 'Yahweh'?
Furthermore, why do most popular translations render 'Yahweh' (incorrectly) as 'the Lord', or its equivalent in other languages? For fear of profaning the 'sacred name' of Yahweh, Temple-era Israelites were forbidden to utter "Yahweh" and would say "The Lord" instead. the Septuagint Greek translation took this further by translating 'Yahweh' as 'the Lord' in the text, and later translations followed suit. since at least the 19th Century, few Christians feel quesy about uttering 'Yahweh' or the Latin 'Jehovah', yet virtually all the popular English translations continue the practice of rendering it as 'the Lord', even when they were scrupulous about translating the rest of the text literally. For example, compare the popular English translations of Deut 32:9: http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/32-9.htm
It's worth asking why this practice is so prevalent today, when it is clearly contrary to good standards of Bible translation (where the text and not tradition, especially not a defunct one, should dictate the process).
Heiser then goes on to make the sound argument that the Most High will eventually reclaim the nations back to direct stewardship under Himself. This is reflected in Psalm 82, where the Most High (translated 'God') berates the 'sons of God' (translated 'gods') for their bad stewardship of the nations:
God presides in the great assembly [the Divine Council];
he renders judgment among the 'gods':
2 “How long will you [plural] defend the unjust
and show partiality to the wicked?
3 Defend the weak and the fatherless;
uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
5 “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6 “I said, ‘You are 'gods';
you are all sons of the Most High.
7 But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler.”
8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance.
Verse 8 supports Heiser's view that the Most High will eventually take back the nations from the 'sons of God', who will be destroyed. But note that in the original Hebrew, 'God' is 'Elohim', not 'Yahweh'. It is 'Elohim' that will take back the nations. The same 'Elohim' that created the Earth in Genesis 1:1 will take it back from the wayward 'gods' of Psalm 82. Yahweh is not named in this passage, though based on Deut 32:8-9, he may well be one of those 'gods' who is to be destroyed.
The bottom line is, if Yahweh is 'the Most High', why does the Bible not use 'Yahweh' exclusively when referring to God? Why does it make a distinction between 'Elohim' (meaning 'God', 'god' or 'gods', depending on context), 'Elyon' (the 'Most High') and 'Yahweh'?
Furthermore, why do most popular translations render 'Yahweh' (incorrectly) as 'the Lord', or its equivalent in other languages? For fear of profaning the 'sacred name' of Yahweh, Temple-era Israelites were forbidden to utter "Yahweh" and would say "The Lord" instead. the Septuagint Greek translation took this further by translating 'Yahweh' as 'the Lord' in the text, and later translations followed suit. since at least the 19th Century, few Christians feel quesy about uttering 'Yahweh' or the Latin 'Jehovah', yet virtually all the popular English translations continue the practice of rendering it as 'the Lord', even when they were scrupulous about translating the rest of the text literally. For example, compare the popular English translations of Deut 32:9: http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/32-9.htm
It's worth asking why this practice is so prevalent today, when it is clearly contrary to good standards of Bible translation (where the text and not tradition, especially not a defunct one, should dictate the process).
Genesis 6:2: The sons of God [lit. sons of elohim] saw that the daughters of humans [lit. daughters of adamkind] were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.
Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim [lit. giants] were on the earth at that time, when those divine beings [lit. sons of elohim] were having sexual relations with those human women [lit. daughters of adamkind], who gave birth to children for them. These children became the heroes and legendary figures of ancient times.
The above verses are in a passage (traditionally titled 'The Wickedness of Man') describing the events that led to the Flood judgement.
There are indications that the same kind of miscegenation was the 'original sin' that led to the 'Fall of Man' in Genesis 3.
Genesis 3:1-3 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
The 'eating of the fruit' is obviously symbolic. The word 'tree' is sometimes used in the Bible to symbolize people. A few examples below:
Psalm 92:12 The righteous man will flourish like the palm tree, He will grow like a cedar in Lebanon.
Ezekiel 31:3 Behold, Assyria was a cedar in Lebanon With beautiful branches and forest shade, And very high, And its top was among the clouds.
Romans 11:24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree [Israel], and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree [the Gentiles], how much more will these who are the natural branches [Israelites] be grafted into their own olive tree [Israel]?
In Genesis 2:7, Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat from "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." In the Divine Council paradigm, the Council has knowledge of good and evil, so that tree possibly symbolizes members of the Council (i.e., the 'sons of God' of Genesis 6:2).
It turns out that this idea isn't new. Among the Dead Sea Scrolls is a fragment called 11Q13, or 'the Melchizedek document'. It states as follows:
"For this is the moment of the Year of Grace for Melchizedek. [And h]e will, by his strength, judge the holy ones of God, executing judgement as it is written concerning him in the Songs of David, who said, ELOHIM has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgement (Psalms lxxxii, 1)."
This passage identifies Melchizedek as the Most High Himself. It cites Psalm 82:1-2, in which the Most High judges the 'sons of God', the inferior spiritual beings who currently rule this world. It identifies Melchizedek as the one who executes the judgement. Furthermore, 11Q13 makes no mention of Yahweh, referring to God as 'Elohim' throughout.
11Q13 also states as follows:
[And it will be proclaimed at] the end of days concerning the captives as [He said, To proclaim liberty to the captives (Isa. lxi, 1).
The quote is from Isaiah 61:1. This was the passage that Jesus read out loud in the synagogue to proclaim His ministry:
"Then Jesus came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. As was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath. And when He stood up to read, the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written:
“The Spirit of the Lord is on Me,
because He has anointed Me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent Me to proclaim deliverance to the captives
and recovery of sight to the blind,
to release the oppressed,
to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
Then He rolled up the scroll, returned it to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fixed on Him, and He began by saying, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”"
Interestingly, 11Q13 is dated to 100 years before Jesus, and is written as prophecy.
Finally, 11Q13 identifies this Isaiah passage with the Jubilee year, when slaves were released unconditionally. Yahweh referred to the Israelites as his 'own possession' (Deut 7:6). Jesus told his disciples, "I no longer call you slaves, because a master doesn't confide in his slaves. Now you are my friends, since I have told you everything the Father told me" (John 15:15). So Jesus had redeemed the Israelites from Yahweh's 'ownership'. The whole of 11Q13 makes interesting reading. It shows that there was a group of Israelites who referred to their God as Elohim rather than Yahweh or Adonai (the 'non-profane' title for Yahweh). Many scholars attribute the scrolls to the Essenes, who did not recognize the Aaronic priesthood. Yet the themes in 11Q13 are echoed in the Gospels and New Testament.
But my main points are:
1) let's not miss the wood for the trees. The Most High is sovereign, He is ultimately in control, and He is good. "The Son is the image [lit. 'mirror-like representation'] of the Invisible God" (Colossians 1:15), so there need be no confusion about the character of the Most High. As Jesus said, "If you had known me, you would have known my Father also." (John 14:7).
2) Let's not speculate where speculation does not serve a purpose. Sometimes it is enough to signpost significant inconsistencies, and as it were, let God sort out the rest.
Ernest L. Matin wrote a thoughtful piece on the identity of the 'Old Testament God', that has informed my thinking on this issue, and it's worth quoting from (the link to it is below):
"Yes, angels [elohim] gave the earlier Law for Israel at Mount Sinai. It was common knowledge among the Jewish people in the 1st century that the Law of God was presented to Moses by angels — and not directly by God himself."
"And Paul had further to say,
'Wherefore then serves the Law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made [Jesus]; and it was ordained by ANGELS in the hand of a mediator' Galatians 3:19"
In other words, the Old Testament period was a time of probation when the Most High dealt with Israel 'at a distance', so to speak, through the mediation of elohim, to whom he may have granted some freedom of action in their dealings with His people (btw, the Most High is unchanging and therefore doesn't 'distance himself' from anyone. Israel distanced itself from Him, and He continued to pursue them through mediators they would accept on their own terms, with predictably mixed results).
"Now we come to an important question. Was this 'Angel of the Lord' actually 'the Lord' — that is, Yahweh himself? The answer is NO! This angelic personality appeared to Moses only 'in the name' of Yahweh (as he had done to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob); He was simply acting with power of attorney to carry out the commands of Yahweh [though I suspect, given the contrast between the 'Old Testament God' and Jesus, that the Angel had some freedom of action and dealt with the Israelites partly on their own terms]."
I leave the last word to Professor J.M. Wilson (quoted by Matin):
"It is certain that from the beginning God used angels in human form, with human voices, in order to communicate with man; and the appearances of the angel of the Lord, with his special redemptive relation to God’s people, show the working of that Divine mode of self-revelation which culminated in the coming of the Saviour, and are thus a foreshadowing of, and a preparation for, the final revelation of God in Jesus Christ. Further than this, IT IS NOT SAFE TO GO" [emphasis added]
http://askelm.com/essentials/ess003a.htm