Friday, May 25, 2007

atheism competition - last call for entries...

I am looking for the most irritating, sinister or downright funny example of the ever-popular "but atheism is a faith position too" move. Any more entries...?

10 comments:

Jeremy said...

OK, this one (from an email):

Logically, you cannot have a "lack of belief in". What you have to do instead is "believe in the lack of" deity. If you want to be agnostic and simply say "I don't know if deity(ies) exist or not", then do so. It is easier, and better, to change your label than to try to change a definition all of us are using to try to communicate better.

I submit that atheists are so busy trying to change the definition is because they do recognize that they are making a statement of faith, but don't have the courage to acknowledge it.


P.S. Why always the horrendous grammar? :(

Jeremy said...

But I am afraid I've never seen such gobsmacking outrageousness as this: the article is called The Faith of Unbelief, and is written by Dallas Willard, "USC Philosophy Professor [!], Speaker, Author".

To give you just a taste, take only the concluding three points:

There really is no reason in the general nature of reality why "Mere Christianity" or any other view should or should not be true. This constitutes what older thinkers used to refer to as the "antecedent credibility" of Christianity (or other views).

Thesis: Most of 'the faith of unbelief' that exists today in the concrete form of individual personalities is morally irresponsible—because not rationally sustained—and would be recognized as the superstition it most often is, but for the fact that it is vaguely endorsed by the intellectual system. One might be rational, as above defined, and not believe, in my opinion. But I think this is highly unlikely, and am sure it rarely ever actually occurs. (This opens up another set of issues about belief in relation to evidence.)

If, now, one says that current belief is just as morally irresponsible as current unbelief, or even more so, we can only ask: "And how does that help?" Do we not, whoever we are, owe it to ourselves and those around us to be serious about questions of major importance to human well-being?


Imagine electing to do study philosophy and ending up in his class!

Juliana said...

I am moved to wonder exactly what the point of the “atheism - a faith position” contest is. The terms of the competition seem to seek to reward the person “who can find the most irritating, sinister or downright funny use of this ever-popular myth?” Presumably such a position would be far more easily refuted than a non-irritating, non-sinister, non-downright-funny argument forwarding the same conclusion. How then would this be a triumph for the proponents of atheism? To seek out the weakest form of an opponent’s argument and hold it up to ridicule does not seem to me to be an effective way to forward the cause of reason, logic or rational thinking.

Excellent prize though!!

The Barefoot Bum said...

Juliana: It would probably be useful to note that Law discusses the more serious arguments in the his three posts. One can pursue serious philosophy and indulge in a spot of fun.

The Barefoot Bum said...

Here's another good one: Is Atheism a Religion? from Atheism's Fallacies: "Exposing the Flawed 'Logic' and 'Reasoning' Behind Atheism".

This is the premise behind why we here at AtheismsFallacies.com think that Atheism is a religion. The term atheism comes from the Greek word atheos, meaning godless. Atheos is derived from 'a', meaning "without," and 'theos', meaning "deity". Simply put Atheism literally means "no god". But the problem is that Atheists don't leave it at that. They promote the idea and come up with a belief system to try and prove that there is no god. In fact Atheists by their own admission adhear [sic] to a set of doctrinal beliefs!

The Barefoot Bum said...

From Atheism's Fallacies blog "welcome" page:

If you are posting to attack the author, website owner, or what we believe then don’t waste your time. You won’t change my mind so don’t bother trying.

And we're the dogmatic ones!

Jeremy said...

Hehe - that last one's a gem. A real gem... ;)

potentilla said...

What I don't get is why some religious people seem to be so keen to "prove" that atheism is "just" a religion. Surely they think religion, and faith, are good things. But the project to paint atheism as a faith position seems to suggest some underlying commitment to the view that rationality is the best way of coming to conclusions about things. Tactically, it would seem better advised to stick to the line that atheists are poor benighted people who lack some fundamental perception, analagous to being deaf or blind.

I know this is not an original thought, but it just struck me afresh reading BB's quotations.

The Barefoot Bum said...

Their goal is, I think, to paint atheists as inconsistent and hypocritical.

potentilla said...

You're right (I am having a bad cognition day). But there's still a sort of lingering "see, you're just as bad as us" flavour.