tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post8380299573579293683..comments2024-03-22T06:22:08.010+00:00Comments on Stephen Law: Is Judaism racist? Or is it racist to say Judaism is racist?Stephen Lawhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02167317543994731177noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-17842761233782552142015-12-30T22:53:41.493+00:002015-12-30T22:53:41.493+00:00I feel that the person who commented on June 17th ...I feel that the person who commented on June 17th 2013 hit the nail on the head. I am not of Jewish descent but I fully recognise their strengths and clearly different races display different characteristics. Until the obsession of brain washing the masses with the idea that all races are equivalent is overthrown then we will go on round in circles. For that concept will never be globally accepted because the evidence we witness daily does not support it. Quite the contrary actually. And boiling everything down to the lowest common denominator will not work either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-20668570146926018282015-06-27T02:44:32.361+00:002015-06-27T02:44:32.361+00:00Anonymous, Jews tend to stone wall non Jews in dem...Anonymous, Jews tend to stone wall non Jews in democratic environments and promote other Jews if at all possible. This means that Jews will have support from Jewish members of juries, administrators, managerial staff, and all non Jews will be stalled, diverted, and their ideas examined and conveyed to the Jewish competitors. It is delusional racism and they are against progress of humanity at large unless it can be construed to have been a Jewish win.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-33583956979571983232013-06-17T20:56:17.782+00:002013-06-17T20:56:17.782+00:00I agree with many of the comments above but I thin...I agree with many of the comments above but I think the real point is simply that there are differences between races, that some groups wish to preserve these differences ( Jews are intellectuals who often succeed in whatever they do from the arts to the sciences) and that we need to accept that instead of constantly go against the grain. It's fine to say certain dog breeds display certain characteristics but all humans races are 'same'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-39969599360357113522013-05-07T19:36:25.703+00:002013-05-07T19:36:25.703+00:00Please, people, let's just call a spade a spad...Please, people, let's just call a spade a spade. The Judaic faith/race is about as racially discriminatory as Nazism ever was. Just ask the Hebrew Israelites (Black Jews), who aren't even considered for "official recognition" by the majority of mainstream Jewry.<br /><br />The "Curse of Ham" is also another (extremely racist) Talmudic myth that was authored by the world's least tolerant people. Some people even consider the Hamitic myth to be the birthplace of modern White Supremacism. Let's be honest folks, Judaism is about as racist as it gets.<br /><br />[Regardless of what the mainstream Zionist media would have us believe]<br /><br />Interesting discussion by the way. I thought the original article was very thought-provoking as well. Good stuff.Aussie Bobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-50790913492718240422013-04-28T04:45:08.099+00:002013-04-28T04:45:08.099+00:00The ambiguity between race as determined by the Mo...The ambiguity between race as determined by the Mother and belief or faith is very typical of Jewish life overall. It is never clear just what being Jewish means. A Jew, for example, can be a Frenchman or an Englishman, but a Frenchman can't be a Jew unless he has the right mother. This ambiguity exists in the nationalist identity of Israel as well: One is not a national by virtue of where they live and the culture in which they participate, but by virtue of their mother's racial identity. The ambiguity is always there and it is intended to confuse, to keep critics at bay and allow Jews to go on building a racial state at the expense of the universalist democractic West. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-43468367338645784682011-10-17T16:50:58.698+00:002011-10-17T16:50:58.698+00:00And Zack: The reason, I suspect, your messianic ch...And Zack: The reason, I suspect, your messianic church was so interested in having Jewish converts, as opposed to gentile ones, is because the Jewish converts would give them MUCH more credibility in establishing themselves as an authentic 'Jewish' denomination- rather than simply an evangelical church using Jewish terminology and imagery.Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-27252629189845976602011-10-17T16:47:42.945+00:002011-10-17T16:47:42.945+00:00To Zack Carr: I'm sorry, but you are using you...To Zack Carr: I'm sorry, but you are using your experience in messianic judaism (aka Jews for Jesus) as a descriptor for Judaism in general? No Jewish denomination, from orthodox to reconstructionist, considers 'messianic judaism' to be anything but evangelical protestantism, under a jewish label.Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-50328342624845858182009-09-07T13:23:59.658+00:002009-09-07T13:23:59.658+00:00Thanks for post Zack. Bit depressing though...Thanks for post Zack. Bit depressing though...Stephen Lawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02167317543994731177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-71153393003067465192009-09-07T10:44:28.002+00:002009-09-07T10:44:28.002+00:00As a former member of a messianic synagogue, i can...As a former member of a messianic synagogue, i can tell you from personal experience that Judaism is a race based religion. I attended this synagogue for over a year. they claimed that "Jew and gentile are one in messiah", but that was a load of garbage. Whenever a Jew became messianic, a big deal was made of it, while a gentile conversion was no big deal.<br /><br />The organization also did not allow non-jews to enter, because they feared, "they would destroy messianic judaism". I was denied membership for being a non-jew, even though I shared the same faith. They believed that no on could convert to another race, so the standard for conversion was completely racial.<br /><br />I and a friend who was jewish (we joined together) became students to a prominent Messianic Rabbi. He would teach us together, but he would always prefer the company o my friend over mine. I was a student, and who was i to question my rabbi. Eventually my friend confided in me that the rabbi regularly made fun of the "goyim" for wanting so badly to be jews. Even though most of those people were extremely knowledgeable and very faithful. <br /><br />And this guy wasn't just some shmuck, this guy was co-rabbi with the president of the MJA, the Messianic Judaism Association. Since that day I've given up all illusions, judaism is a race based religion. No different that the crazed race based pseudo-religion of the Nazis.Zack Carrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-39875046051876451612009-08-29T08:33:16.632+00:002009-08-29T08:33:16.632+00:00Looks like that list of "Talmud quotes" ...Looks like that list of "Talmud quotes" is largely a fabrication of the KKK:<br /><br />http://www.minuteswithmessiah.com/question/kkk.html<br /><br />No doubt there are all sorts of horrible, bigoted things in the Talmud, it's what you'd expect from a religious text, but I'd need hyperlinks into a reliable online Talmud to take such a list seriously!Paul Crowleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07678457525255135699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-86640939744841880312009-08-05T18:33:33.181+00:002009-08-05T18:33:33.181+00:00I am an open-minded person interested in world rel...I am an open-minded person interested in world religions <br />but I think Judaism teaches hatred(both racial and religiuos) and thus supports racism.<br /> <br />Key:<br />'Goyim'(plural)=gentiles or non-Jews<br />'Goy'(Singular).synonym 'Akum'<br /><br />What makes me think so follows below:<br /><br />1."The Jew is the living God, God incarnate: he is the heavenly man. The other men are earthly, of inferior race. They exist only to serve the Jew. They are the <br />cattle seed!" The Jewish Kabbala. <br /><br />2."Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."Sanhedrin 59a <br /> <br />3."Do not save Goyim in danger of death." Hilkkoth Akum XI<br /><br />4."Even the best ofthe Gentiles should be killed. " Abodah Zara 26b<br /><br />5."Show no mercy to the Goyim." Kilkhoth Akum X1<br /><br />6."Jesus is in hell and is being punished by being boiled in hot semen.Christians are boiled in dung."Gittin 57a<br /><br />7."To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they <br />would kill us openly."Libbre David 37<br /><br />8."Jews must always try to deceive Christians."Zohar 1,160a <br /><br />9."Jesus fornicated with his jackass." Sanhedrin 105ab<br /><br />10."Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age." Yebhamoth 11b<br /><br />11. "A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death." Sanhedrin 59a<br /><br />12."If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, <br />a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth."Choschen Hamm 388, <br /><br />13. "The Jew is allowed to go to the Akum (Gentile), lead him on, do business with him,to deceive him and take his money. For the wealth of the Akum is to be regarded as common property and belongs to the first who can get it."Choschen Ham (156,5 Hagah)<br /><br />14."A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death." Sanhedrin 59a<br /><br />I thought people were anti-semitic for saying part of what is included above until I confirmed the above to be true.Incredible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-3158023053916893582009-07-06T21:34:14.413+00:002009-07-06T21:34:14.413+00:00While I don't particularly defend the schools ...While I don't particularly defend the schools stance it would seem that the court is taking an odd view of race. Usually descent would be considered both through the mother or father's sides e.g if someone was described as half-Asian we could not tell which of the parents were Asian. Another option would be to look at expressed characteristics such as eye colour etc.<br />Not so in the Jewishness case. Note also that conversion <i>is</i> possible by means of appropriate religious action involving a qualified Rabbi; this would not be possible in any other racial context. Presumably if the mother had used an Orthodox Rabbi all would have been well.<br /><br />The interpretation appears to be a purely ritual one and is surely therefor religious in nature.<br /><br />Here's a link with some background <br /><a href="http://pandapedia.com/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew%3F#Four_basic_disputes" rel="nofollow"> Who is a Jew - Four basic disputes</a><br /><br />Interestingly there seem to be groups of Indian, Southern African and Chinese Jews!wombatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-39851456144361109462009-07-06T20:31:00.697+00:002009-07-06T20:31:00.697+00:00What this country needs is more religously segrega...What this country needs is more religously segregated schools.<br /><br />Discuss...Steven Carrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11983601793874190779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-45356098461860126192009-07-06T19:01:54.080+00:002009-07-06T19:01:54.080+00:00Tony,
There's a large overlap. A racial heri...Tony, <br /><br />There's a large overlap. A racial heritage can essentially be seen <i>as</i> a cultural heritage, especially when we remember that there is often greater physicial variation <i>within</i> so-called "racial" groups than between them. <br /><br />As Stephen points out, many Arabs and Jews share a common ancestor from just 8000 years ago, so any notion that Jews are a different race <i>physically</i> must be a false one. <br /><br />Therefore, pretty much the only way in which Jews can be considered a discrete race is once cultural and social factors are taken into account (including, but not limited to, the maternal line). <br /><br />If one way for Jews to maintain the Jewish race in a modern, culturally pluralistic setting is to exclude from a full introduction into their culture those who are not from the maternal line, then I honestly can't see a problem. <br /><br />The issue, I believe, comes down to there being two political goods - on the one hand, the wish to promote cultural pluralism. And on the other, the wish to minimise unjustified racial discrimination. <br /><br />Once race is defined in terms of culture, these two goods can sometimes seem superficially contradictory. But if we maintain that the promotion of plural cultural identities is a public good, this can then justify exclusion on the basis of race. <br /><br />In any case, I see no reason to think that any of this should necessarily be seen in terms of mutual hostility between races.Patrick Hurleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13476643362645118729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-19827176968722607812009-07-06T17:12:01.680+00:002009-07-06T17:12:01.680+00:00Hi Patrick
I appreciate that Jews are a historica...Hi Patrick<br /><br />I appreciate that Jews are a historically persecuted minority and that has consequences. I'm still hazy, however, about what a racial heritage <i>is</i>.<br /><br />A <i>cultural</i> inheritance may be the history behind a culture. To the extent that you inherit the culture, presumably by being brought up in it, then it could be said to be "your" cultural heritage. Similarly if you are brought up in a religion then you could be said to have a "religious heritage". <br /><br />What do you "inherit" with a race, other than some DNA? Sadly, you may inherit the dislike to outright hatred of others but that's something to be got rid of rather than preserved.<br /><br />As for "hostility", it may be a strong word but, as Stephen pointed out, there is a difference between giving members of a group "first dibs" and simply excluding others because they are not members of that group.Tony Lloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03740295390214409286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-47089919089262358042009-07-06T16:02:01.042+00:002009-07-06T16:02:01.042+00:00Jews are a historically persecuted minority in Eur...Jews are a historically persecuted minority in Europe, so preservation of Jewish heritage must be seen in that context. I see that Stephen considers this as a possible reasonable defence in his second post script above. <br /><br />As for the alleged hostility of school place allocation procedures - I don't agree that differentiation on ethnic grounds is necessarily hostile. It may well be, but not in all cases. It depends, again, on the wider context.Patrick Hurleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13476643362645118729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-10588281271923342022009-07-06T15:26:12.614+00:002009-07-06T15:26:12.614+00:00Patrick, I'm not quite with you on the idea of...Patrick, I'm not quite with you on the idea of a "racial heritage" What is a "racial heritage" and why would it need "defending"?<br /><br />I'm also unclear on how any action can be taken by a school on the basis of race that would not be "hostile". Surely excluding someone from a school because they are the wrong race is "hostile".Tony Lloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03740295390214409286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-23413328146355574082009-07-06T15:12:23.675+00:002009-07-06T15:12:23.675+00:00I'm a relatively new reader of this blog (I ac...I'm a relatively new reader of this blog (I actually think this might be my first comment here) so I'll take this opportunity to say "hello".<br /><br />I've long argued that the religious dimension to ethnicity in terms of personal identity should not be underestimated. Seen thus, objections to short-tempered attacks on religion are less an attempt to defend "irrational beliefs", and more an attempt to assert common identity in the face of antagonism from outside the ethnic grouping.<br /><br />Accordingly, and being a proud anti-racist campaigner, I can have no problem per se with ethnically-based schools, as long as the justification is genuinely to protect a racial heritage rather than to assert a spurious racial supremacy.<br /><br />It seems that this wish to continue the protection of racial heritage is the case here (I doubt very much that a Jewish school would have an ethos of active hostility to other races). <br /><br />ps. I must make plain that, like Stephen, I'm no expert on the details of what Jews believe makes a person Jewish. I'll merely comment that "race" is primarily a concept of the social sciences rather than the physical sciences, and should properly be regarded as belonging within that discipline.Patrick Hurleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13476643362645118729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-58555695873565310522009-07-06T09:20:47.380+00:002009-07-06T09:20:47.380+00:00Don't worry. As soon as it is convenient to do...Don't worry. As soon as it is convenient to do so, Jew will play the <a href="http://www.thejc.com/articles/four-year-old-abused-school-racists" rel="nofollow"> racist </a> card.<br /><br />If Muslims are prejudiced about Jews, that is racism.<br /><br />But determinations by Jews of who is Jewish and who is not Jewish are based on religion, not race.Steven Carrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11983601793874190779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-26511158481750081382009-07-06T09:09:44.343+00:002009-07-06T09:09:44.343+00:00It is my feeling that it's legal cases like th...It is my feeling that it's legal cases like these - showing the absurdity of faith based admissions - that will eventually finish faith schools. (No party with a chance of power seems to have have the desire or conviction to stand up to the religious lobby.)<br /><br />I write as someone who feels the effect of this. Where I live there are two state schools within walking distance. One has the best "raw" academic results for the city, the other one of the worst and is regarded as a "sink" school by many parents. The former is a CofE school which selects on the basis of parent's faith; the other takes whoever is left. The selection (and self selection by application) of pupils and the good results of the school are obviously connected. (Although this is unlikely to stop the Church using such schools as part of its case for the continuation and expansion of faith schools.)<br /><br />Going back to the original point, the admissions to the CofE school is based purely on church attendance. Ethnicity doesn't come into CofE membership. But it still has its problems: I might attend, but not believe. My children might not be baptised; should I get priority over parents who do believe, with baptised children but don't attend as often (for whatever reason)? It is not hard to come up with absurdities. <br /><br />I am powerless to change the system as an individual. Alternatives are (1) fee-paying schools which I can't afford and don't agree with either, or (2) move house - again not financially viable at the moment and would uproot my children. <br /><br />I feel I must put my daughters' best interests first. And this means doing my best to avoid them going to the "worst" school. <br /><br />I've been an atheist since the age of 12, I have a degree in Philosophy, and am a member of the National Secular Society. But, with gritted teeth and a feeling of hypocrisy, I have begun attending church. <br /><br />I am posting this anonymously (I sometimes post here under my own name) as I need to keep my non-belief quiet for the next few years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-60976049452740546282009-07-05T20:04:19.656+00:002009-07-05T20:04:19.656+00:00Really, Tony, do you seriously expect religious pu...Really, Tony, do you seriously expect religious pundits to abide by the rules of logic? If they did, they would all be obliged to quit their jobs instantly. Most of them have no comprehension of what logic is, anyway.anticanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18135207107619114891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-92202054369434488282009-07-05T18:43:39.660+00:002009-07-05T18:43:39.660+00:00It saddens, and concerns me, how the religious wil...It saddens, and concerns me, how the religious will ignore basic logic if defending a religious position.<br /><br />If a school has "A" as the admission criteria then it doesn't stop having "A" if it adds "or B". It doesn't now have criteria that are <i>solely</i> "A", but then it doesn't have criteria that are <i>solely</i> "B". Yet when this school has "race or religion" as its criteria Sacks claims that it <i>is</i> solely religious. There is a school which says "you can come to this school if your mother is racially Jewish" and, somehow, cannot see that as a racial criterion. Sacks is an intelligent man and I very much doubt that, in reality, he can't see it. He seems to choose not to see it. It's like 1984: "the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to [your religion]" (I've just been re-reading 1984, the parallels between Ingsoc and the authoritarian religious are striking).Tony Lloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03740295390214409286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-7529434507965960812009-07-05T14:27:41.527+00:002009-07-05T14:27:41.527+00:00I don't care how Jews, Christians, or Muslims ...I don't care how Jews, Christians, or Muslims run their exclusive schools as long as thry don't get a penny of my money for doing so.anticanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18135207107619114891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-4098582075904005752009-07-05T11:11:23.058+00:002009-07-05T11:11:23.058+00:00I found Sack's original article here.I found Sack's original article <a href="http://www.thejc.com/articles/a-bad-ruling-a-bad-time-to-confuse-religion-and-race-a-mistake" rel="nofollow">here</a>.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240399669150057121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-29619678982687951202009-07-05T11:00:34.509+00:002009-07-05T11:00:34.509+00:00Poor old Chief Rabbi has to confront his demons an...Poor old Chief Rabbi has to confront his demons and understand that Judaism is racist. I couldn't convert, not because I couldn't do the religious practice, but because I am from the wrong race.<br /><br />This isn't a huge issue for me, I don't want to convert, and I am happy for Jews to practice their religion however they want. Except in the secular issue that presumably the school receives state funding, and why should I be paying for children to be taught Judaism?<br /><br />The law seems to define religion in terms of religious practice, not racial pedigree. When Sacks claims that Jewishness depends on the religion of the mother, then he makes a claim which is not recognised under UK law. We have rights as individuals under the law, not rights inherited from others. Except all our own peculiar exceptions that is, like the monarchy and inherited Lords, and probably a good few others.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240399669150057121noreply@blogger.com