tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post43048465987666818..comments2024-03-22T06:22:08.010+00:00Comments on Stephen Law: Daily Mail and the art of ad hominemStephen Lawhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02167317543994731177noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-10011947690543636622012-08-28T12:52:20.247+00:002012-08-28T12:52:20.247+00:00Stephen, I think I've finally worked it out: I...Stephen, I think I've finally worked it out: If you're poor and a socialist (like me) you're envious; if you're rich and a socialist (like Ken Follet) you're a hypocrite. On the other hand, if you're rich and a Tory, you're a bastard (insert appropriate names) and if you're poor and a Tory (like my neighbour) you're just an idiot. Simples!Poetry Pleases!https://www.blogger.com/profile/16686247991180317838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-49681050706941126482012-08-25T10:53:20.547+00:002012-08-25T10:53:20.547+00:00If Hollande is worth less than a million pounds, h...If Hollande is worth less than a million pounds, he is worth less than 0.1 per cent of what someone like McCartney is worth. With four children to support, I don't think that even the Daily Mail could seriously describe him as 'rich'.Poetry Pleases!https://www.blogger.com/profile/16686247991180317838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-71511904555958301902012-05-17T21:58:23.941+00:002012-05-17T21:58:23.941+00:00Not that I like defending the Mail, but:
(To clar...Not that I like defending the Mail, but:<br /><br />(To clarify, let's just bracket the issue that the DM case might be a pack of lies, and presume they're right to say that Hollande, despite being a socialist, is loaded).<br /><br />Hypocrisy charges along the lines of "If you're an egalitarian, how come you're so rich" (cf. Cohen) strike me as political fair game. It isn't like anyone is forcing Hollande to stay wealthy, he can always *give his money away* (for example, to effective charities that save lives for £300 a pop).<br /><br />If you really thought that society should be egalitarian, that the wealthy are so because of iniquitous economic rents etc, then surely integrity demands you do not use these unjust deserts for your own pleasure. It would be even *worse* to not speak out about these things as well, but you should do both.<br /><br />(It might be *even worse* to sincerely believe that these things are fine and so non-hypocritically live a rich life than be a champagne commissar, but both are still not on).<br /><br />Obviously, none of this, if true, would make Hollande's beliefs wrong. But given we dislike having hypocrites as political leaders (like we ever get a choice etc. etc..) it isn't unreasonable for media to point out when politicians practice doesn't match up to their preaching.<br /><br />On a personal note, I find the sort of left-wingers socialists who go on about social justice whilst keeping for themselves a salary several times higher than the UK median income utterly repulsive, even if I agree with them.Thrasymachushttp://www.thepolemicalmedic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-18127321262507477942012-05-17T11:48:11.039+00:002012-05-17T11:48:11.039+00:00While I am half French and my brother lives in Fra...While I am half French and my brother lives in France, I don't follow French politics as closely as I would like. However here are a few points to counter the Daily Mail's inevitably one-sided report.<br />While I don't share your atheism, I'm glad, Stephen, that you and I are politically on the same wavelength, and yes, it's something to be commended not condemned that a rich man should care for the plight of the poor.<br />• The hard left candidate Melanchon gave his support to Hollande in the second round - so was clearly not put off by Hollande's riches or concern that he might be a 'champagne socialist'.<br />• Only in Daily Mail land with its topsy turvy morality could Hollande's fair-minded treatment of Ségolène Royal be seen as dishonourable. Surely Hollande's conduct is to be commended, not condemned.<br />• One of Sarcozy's first acts on election in 2008 was to massively boost the president's salary, so again Hollande's act in reducing it is to be condoned, not condemned. The one to be criticised here is Sarcozy, not Hollande.<br /><br /><br />Blind StephenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-85844491497413247542012-05-15T20:04:16.282+00:002012-05-15T20:04:16.282+00:00See this
http://arunwithaview.wordpress.com/2012...See this <br /><br />http://arunwithaview.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/francois-hollande-mr-normal<br /><br />which points out many of the factural inaccuracies in the DM story and concludes that he is not rich at allAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-49969679370237439732012-05-14T22:39:26.953+00:002012-05-14T22:39:26.953+00:00I'm no fan of the Daily Mail but the Left, wit...I'm no fan of the Daily Mail but the Left, with their 'do as I say, not as I do' condescension to the common man do present irresistible targets. <br /><br />Like the clergy, the Left pretends to possess esoteric knowledge that they use to better the lives of their flock but, really, they're charlatans hoping we never find them out. <br /><br />In its own clumsy way the silly, flailing, indignant Daily Mail ensures we don't lose sight of what utter, utter filth the political Left really is. <br /><br />MCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-19128235169913883212012-05-14T22:21:40.044+00:002012-05-14T22:21:40.044+00:00Property valued at one million pounds...?
That...Property valued at one million pounds...?<br /><br />That's scarcely enough to buy a single decent sized house in London.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-72297643325908506962012-05-14T17:56:22.665+00:002012-05-14T17:56:22.665+00:00What if you are a self-loathing closeted homosexua...What if you are a self-loathing closeted homosexual hypocritical Fundamentalist Christian Minister?<br /><br />Then things get really sticky!Daniel Polowetzky https://www.blogger.com/profile/04299950687312400826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-65286175241179755842012-05-14T16:33:31.631+00:002012-05-14T16:33:31.631+00:00Stephen: Apropos the main event. How about draftin...Stephen: Apropos the main event. How about drafting a petition for the teaching of critical thinking in schools? This pilgrim daughter from the States, where it is experiencing some success, is on her way to the UK.<br />Change.org petition site targets UK campaigners <br />http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18033968Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-60501204884304406912012-05-14T15:59:07.267+00:002012-05-14T15:59:07.267+00:00No extra problem so I agree there.
Self-loathing i...No extra problem so I agree there.<br />Self-loathing is entirely different from hypocrisy.<br /><br />No reliable source? <br /><br />Quelle Surprise!wombatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-63998881086134997372012-05-14T15:22:45.552+00:002012-05-14T15:22:45.552+00:00In the United States, any discussion of a progress...In the United States, any discussion of a progressive income tax, or alteration of the current tax brackets, is attacked as promoting "class warfare" by Republicans.<br /><br />If this were the 1950s, the expression would be "Communist".<br />On some Fox News stations, President Obama is referred to as Marxist, a mere ad hominem attack.<br /><br />Again, what's wrong with a little class warfare?Daniel Polowetzky https://www.blogger.com/profile/04299950687312400826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-24411363141448336602012-05-14T14:32:20.071+00:002012-05-14T14:32:20.071+00:00The issue is not disliking Jews, or disliking the ...The issue is not disliking Jews, or disliking the rich, but whether there's an *extra* problem with a rich person disliking the rich. can't see that there is.<br /><br />They're may be a problem with disliking Jews, period, whether or not a Jew does it. Ditto the rich. But that's not the issue being raised by the DM.<br /><br />But in any case is that Hollande's view? Probably not. I notice one commentor looked into the origin of the quote and can find no reliable source.Stephen Lawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02167317543994731177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-10900055994257223522012-05-14T11:52:11.391+00:002012-05-14T11:52:11.391+00:00And what's wrong with a rich person "disl...<i>And what's wrong with a rich person "disliking the rich"?</i><br /><br />Perhaps it's a prejudice like any other. <br /><br />Admittedly he may deflect some types of criticism since he has first hand experience of being rich so he might be able to quote some introspective consideration as to why he holds this view but it seems rather unfair on all those lottery winners who are transformed into objects of loathing at the turn of a number. <br /><br />Would it be really OK e.g. for a Jewish person to say they disliked Jews?wombatnoreply@blogger.com