tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post3123864470130049147..comments2024-03-22T06:22:08.010+00:00Comments on Stephen Law: 'Child-witches' of Nigeria seek refugeStephen Lawhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02167317543994731177noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-39426349953905060572011-10-20T22:06:21.201+00:002011-10-20T22:06:21.201+00:00This article strikes me as hypocritical.
The abus...This article strikes me as hypocritical.<br /><br />The abuse of children by a predatory psychiatry has been going on for years, and is getting worse. We are talking about millions here, millions of children and young adults.<br /><br />Being innately "evil", and being innately "disordered" come from the same hymn sheet, both are an assault on autonomy and are methods of disenfranchising people from themselves, the latter leading to a lifetime of indoctrination to an incoherent reductionism, as well as chemical addiction.John Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04743220892916130663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-14371822416815431432011-10-20T22:05:54.148+00:002011-10-20T22:05:54.148+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.John Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04743220892916130663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-10564913261136489412009-11-24T15:22:47.670+00:002009-11-24T15:22:47.670+00:00I had read about this case, though I had not reali...I had read about this case, though I had not realised the bottom line had something to do with its obvious religious connotations!<br /><br />Clearly they are various elements concerning this case, but if one of them involves religion, it is bound to be a situation full of excuses from abusive people who can cleverly disguise their actions with the vulnerability of fears, a card much too used by religious people either to blame or to gain pity<br /><br />Of course one wouldn't disregard that many people do evil acts or indeed good ones out of their religious fears of fanatical believes<br /><br />Cheers<br />Rinamarinarealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453387083038328991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-60907810819735921462008-11-13T11:38:00.000+00:002008-11-13T11:38:00.000+00:00Re Bible context.The Bible has been translated cop...Re Bible context.<BR/><BR/>The Bible has been translated copied and edited for about 2000 years. <BR/><BR/>1) If it was "the word of God" it should not be ambiguous, subject to the interpretive whim of man. Classes (beyond an ability to read) should not be necessary.<BR/><BR/>2) Despite 2000 years of learned scholarship by Christians interpreting it in a sympathetic way, there are no clarifying footnotes or clear explanations to aid the unwary. Nor has a disambiguated version been produced. Anywhere else explanatory additions would have been made. e.g. "For avoidance of doubt a witch is defined as...". For pities sake it isn't even possible to identify clearly the authors! <BR/><BR/>Finally I recall a statement someone once made to the effect that "any sufficiently large book is an anagram of any other book"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-12345011162949406492008-11-12T23:37:00.000+00:002008-11-12T23:37:00.000+00:00"ANY passage that SEEMS to validate the "fact" of ..."ANY passage that SEEMS to validate the "fact" of witches' existence and condones their execution is, at the very least, completely irresponsible, and at worst, homocidal."<BR/>How is this irresponsible.In Israel there was a Sanhedrin established (which rarely resorted to using the death penalty) to give people a fair trial before they were punished.<BR/>I would say it was irresponsible for those people to read the bible outside of its historical context and take these verses in isolation without acknowledging he legal system that was in place back then to carry out these laws.<BR/>I should say we have proper bible education classes as those people do not understand the bibleMrFreeThinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12778096949945818236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-91438735433506008092008-11-12T22:53:00.000+00:002008-11-12T22:53:00.000+00:00I've just watched the television program on this i...I've just watched the television program on this it's the first i've heard of this and i've got to say i'm amazed and also disgusted that this has been allowed to grow and fester into what it has become. i'm a first mother and what i saw touched me deeply those kids should not be allowed to suffer in this in-human way i want to help the cause to stop this but all i have to offer is my artistic skills does anyone know who i should contact so i can offer my skills to donate artwork to be sold to make money for these poor helpless childern.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-61791254289165480672008-11-12T15:19:00.000+00:002008-11-12T15:19:00.000+00:00All it brings is trouble, strife,intolerance, hatr...<B>All it brings is trouble, strife,intolerance, hatred, persecution, and war.<BR/></B><BR/><BR/>Reminds me of a song by motorhead<BR/>http://strawmen-cometh.blogspot.<BR/>com/2008/11/atheist-metal01.htmlBillyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16602020760483338822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-27721439531137228032008-11-12T13:51:00.000+00:002008-11-12T13:51:00.000+00:00The world would be a better place without the enti...The world would be a better place without the entire Bible, the Koran, all other "sacred" books, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and the whole gamut of religions.<BR/><BR/>Religion and primitive belief in the non-existent 'supernatural' and gods is understandable in a historical context, but has no constructive part to play in today's world.<BR/><BR/>All it brings is trouble, strife,intolerance, hatred, persecution, and war.anticanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18135207107619114891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-86750542228698443562008-11-12T13:33:00.000+00:002008-11-12T13:33:00.000+00:00Kyle, you misunderstand my point, I think. We are...Kyle, you misunderstand my point, I think. We are discussing whether religion (Christianity, in this case) has anything to answer for with respect to the recent abuse of children on suspicion of being "witches".<BR/><BR/>The Bible is held out by Christians as being much more than "some guy's thoughts". It is the Word of God, and good Christians are encouraged to believe in it, are they not?<BR/><BR/>Now, the selfsame Bible says "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live". Contrary to your rather desperate reply, this is not taken out of context, as I'm sure you know. It is part of a long list of rather disparate commandments (from you-know-Who) about how to conduct oneself. (I'd be interested to know what you think the statement means "in context"?)<BR/><BR/>But actually this doesn't matter, in the final analysis. Even if (i) the context somehow ends up making the sentence contradict itself (which I doubt), and even if (ii) you are actually supposed to read the passage "metaphorically" (which would be a risible attempt at evasion), it would STILL be better if there were no passages in the Bible telling us to kill witches, wouldn't it?<BR/><BR/>ANY passage that SEEMS to validate the "fact" of witches' existence and condones their execution is, at the very least, completely irresponsible, and at worst, homocidal. Especially when people are encouraged, day in and day out, to believe that the text is the inspired Word of God.<BR/><BR/><I>That's</I> the point I was trying to make. Simply put: if the world would be a better place without the above passage in the Bible, then Christianity has to share in some of the blame for the "witch" child abuse.jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353716090668341520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-38216775631452084372008-11-12T08:42:00.000+00:002008-11-12T08:42:00.000+00:00Of course priesthood is political. Priests are eit...Of course priesthood is political. Priests are either creatures, or opponents, of the prevailing civil authority. In many periods of history, and in some parts of the world still today, priests aspire to government, or at least to function as its agents. And they always seek to influence society's thinking and behaviour.<BR/><BR/>I would ask you to point to a time and situation where this statement is not true, but I know you are not interested in evidence.anticanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18135207107619114891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-17828233482298562792008-11-12T06:22:00.000+00:002008-11-12T06:22:00.000+00:00"You are usual going on about the importance of ev..."You are usual going on about the importance of evidence."<BR/><BR/>And you, as usual, are going on about the unimportance - indeed, the irrelevance - of evidence.<BR/><BR/>This is what makes discussion with you so uninteresting.<BR/><BR/>Damn it, this is a philosophy blog. What do you think philosophy is about?anticanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18135207107619114891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-21492620018945631612008-11-11T23:26:00.000+00:002008-11-11T23:26:00.000+00:00Being a priest is just a political thing. It's all...<I>Being a priest is just a political thing. It's all about exercising power and control over the gullible by invoking "God's name".<BR/><BR/>Rev Sam and Kyle, please discuss.</I><BR/><BR/>It's not.<BR/><BR/>What is your evidence for this? You are usual going on about the importance of evidence.<BR/><BR/>I agree that some religious leaders have used their positions simply for their own game, but that doesn't come close to justifying the statement that "Being a priest is <I>just</I> a political thing."Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18051333311927845358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-10421747608677491882008-11-11T23:22:00.000+00:002008-11-11T23:22:00.000+00:00Problem is, the Bible doesn't help you conclude an...<I>Problem is, the Bible doesn't help you conclude any of the above three points. In fact, it contradicts all three of them, directly in the second statement, and by implication for the other two statements. As Twain says, "The witch text remains; only the practice has changed."</I><BR/><BR/>The Bible doesn't contain all the truths that there are, so the Chrsitian is not obliged to defend these sorts of beliefs using the Bible.<BR/><BR/>As for there being a contradiction. I think it's difficult to uphold the contradiction when the verse is taken in context. You can't just take a sentence from the Bible, apply it directly to our situation and claim that that's what the Bible teaches.<BR/><BR/>In order to show that there's a contradiction you need to make a convincing attempt to show that that is what the Bible teaches, not that you could interpret it that way if you ignore the context.Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18051333311927845358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-71651014626262637572008-11-11T22:08:00.000+00:002008-11-11T22:08:00.000+00:00Its beyond horrifying, I see things like this more...Its beyond horrifying, I see things like this more and more regularly online and really can't get my head around how this is aloud to continue... its enough to make your blood boil...Nothing Hummingbirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08373035531818513648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-35909173758400585602008-11-11T19:54:00.000+00:002008-11-11T19:54:00.000+00:00Being a priest is just a political thing. It's all...Being a priest is just a political thing. It's all about exercising power and control over the gullible by invoking "God's name".<BR/><BR/>Rev Sam and Kyle, please discuss.anticanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18135207107619114891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-48401240176736576562008-11-11T19:23:00.000+00:002008-11-11T19:23:00.000+00:00"A witch is someone who practices witchcraft. They..."A witch is someone who practices witchcraft. They are still a witch even if witchcraft is impossible."<BR/><BR/>I would have thought that made them just deluded or excessively optimistic. <BR/><BR/>"These witches or sorcoresses had a lot of power to do evil and cause hurt"<BR/><BR/>If witchcraft is impossible then being a witch is just a political thing isn't it. The only way they could do harm is by purely normal means. There were plenty of other penalties stipulated for say theft or poisoning or whatever so why not get them on those? It's basically a catch all clause for people who don't fit in. <BR/><BR/>It wouldn't have been too much trouble to run off another commandment like "Thou shalt not believe in witchcraft for it is complete humbug, and the penalty for such credulity is to be ridiculed in view of the congregation"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-34087598905690412582008-11-11T14:19:00.000+00:002008-11-11T14:19:00.000+00:00No, Anticant, far be it from me to tamper with the...No, Anticant, far be it from me to tamper with the Divine Word. But perhaps it is not to much to ask for God to have got it right the first time? Or at least, told us unambiguously (perhaps on BBC news, or Oprah?) that, "The following passages no longer apply..."?<BR/><BR/>That's of course if there is a god. <BR/><BR/>If there isn't (and I'm afraid their really isn't) then the passage about witches is yet another reason to consign the Bible to the long list of historical relics. Interesting in terms of what it shows about a certain Middle Eastern tribe's sense of morality several thousand years ago, but comfortably surpassed by most educated people today (including Kyle - see above).jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353716090668341520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-34569528754027478792008-11-11T13:04:00.000+00:002008-11-11T13:04:00.000+00:00Rsally, jeremy, are you suggesting that we should ...Rsally, jeremy, are you suggesting that we should edit the Bible to suit our modern sophisticated tastes?<BR/><BR/>That, of course, is what the people who wrote it did from the word Go.<BR/><BR/>But the Bible is the word of God, remember. Not for us mere mortals to tinker with!anticanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18135207107619114891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-66394293595030056022008-11-11T12:50:00.000+00:002008-11-11T12:50:00.000+00:00Oh, and what's this about "In days before concrete...Oh, and what's this about "In days before concrete the death penalty was important, because stopping people who wish to do evil is not easy when you don't have prisons."??<BR/><BR/>Uh, there were plenty prisons then. Just with <I>stone</I> walls.jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353716090668341520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-71745290956337502982008-11-11T12:35:00.000+00:002008-11-11T12:35:00.000+00:00Kyle,You say, in your most recent post, that:(i) w...Kyle,<BR/><BR/>You say, in your most recent post, that:<BR/>(i) witchcraft doesn't work, <BR/>(ii) nowadays, at least, witches don't deserve the death penalty, and<BR/>(iii) witches these days are a fairly harmless bunch.<BR/><BR/>If you do believe these things, then good. We're on the same page, and that is the page that any reasonably rational person should be on at the moment.<BR/><BR/>Problem is, the Bible doesn't help you conclude any of the above three points. In fact, it contradicts all three of them, directly in the second statement, and by implication for the other two statements. As Twain says, "The witch text remains; only the practice has changed."<BR/><BR/>I think this is why we are saying that religion has the potential to play a large role in 'witch hunts', etc.<BR/><BR/>Wouldn't it simply be best if the bible contained NO references to witchcraft, unless they were of the sort that we enumerated above? It really does seem extraordinarily negligent to leave passages such as "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" in a book that is held out as an example to live by, I think.jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17353716090668341520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-8701662203600071882008-11-11T12:07:00.000+00:002008-11-11T12:07:00.000+00:00Of course witches exist. It's ludicrous to say oth...Of course witches exist. It's ludicrous to say otherwise.<BR/><BR/>You might as well say that Christians don't exist because God doesn't exist.<BR/><BR/>A witch is someone who practices witchcraft. They are still a witch even if witchcraft is impossible.<BR/><BR/>The issue here is completely differnt from the one facing the Jews in Exodus.<BR/><BR/>For a start, these children are not witches. You cannot be born a witch, and these children are clearly not trying to practice some kind of dark art.<BR/><BR/>Also, the Bible does not condone accussing someone of being a witch based on hearsay and suspicion, and then going on a witch hunt.<BR/><BR/>The situation that the Jews at the time would have faced would be someone who was trying to do evil and harm and manipulate others. These witches or sorcoresses had a lot of power to do evil and cause hurt (even though what they believed may have been false). In days before concrete the death penalty was important, because stopping people who wish to do evil is not easy when you don't have prisons.<BR/><BR/>Modern day witchcraft is very different. It seem to be people who believe in healing crystals and the like. Frequently harmless, even if wrong. To equate these people with the sort that are being spoken about in Exodus is anachronistic.Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18051333311927845358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-58366057610935994822008-11-11T11:51:00.000+00:002008-11-11T11:51:00.000+00:00Well, Kyle, if professing Christians do evil since...Well, Kyle, if professing Christians do evil sincerely believing they are carrying out the will of God, is that not the fault of the religion?<BR/><BR/>As for taking your cue from the Bible, doesn't the Bible say "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"? [Exodus 22.18] <BR/><BR/>After all, as Kouao - not the pastor - said, "Possession is something we learn from the Bible. I generally do not question the Bible".<BR/><BR/>So do you, Kyle, believe there are witches, because the Bible says so? If not, why not?anticanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18135207107619114891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-14239789516070348522008-11-11T11:04:00.000+00:002008-11-11T11:04:00.000+00:00However you define 'evil', show me a religion that...<I>However you define 'evil', show me a religion that doesn't encourage it.</I><BR/><BR/>Christianity.<BR/><BR/>That doesn't mean that no Christians have ever done evil, or that people have not tried to use Christianity to justify evil acts, or that people have not thought that Christianity taught that they should do something that was in fact evil.<BR/><BR/>Chrsitianity: Following the will of God as revealed in the Bible.<BR/><BR/>Evil: Going against the will of God.Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18051333311927845358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-90529261946437236072008-11-11T10:55:00.000+00:002008-11-11T10:55:00.000+00:00However you define 'evil', show me a religion that...However you define 'evil', show me a religion that doesn't encourage it.anticanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18135207107619114891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1905686568472747305.post-25759471090593932322008-11-11T10:53:00.000+00:002008-11-11T10:53:00.000+00:00To those of his mindset, nothing is EVER the fault...<I>To those of his mindset, nothing is EVER the fault of religion - it is always the ignorance or delusion of the imperfect human believers.</I><BR/><BR/>Anticant I fail to understand why an atheist would think otherwise. If there is no God, then religion is a manmade thing, so the blame does come back to humans.<BR/><BR/>I don't think that religion is never to blame for attrocities, but any religion that encourages evil is false religion.<BR/><BR/><I>Our generation is having the sins of our arrogant 19th century missionary forefathers visited upon us for having foisted this slave religion upon the unfortunate black people of Africa.</I><BR/><BR/>These surstitious beliefs existed before Christianity came to Africa.Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18051333311927845358noreply@blogger.com